Posts by under the radar

40

Return of the Dub (plus surprise guest)

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

return of the dub (plus surprise guest)dealing with just one frisky, bright-eyed jehovah’s witness is a handful.one on one is manageable.

two jw’s is more like juggling chainsaws or french kissing alligators.i had a return visit the other day and now, the jw was returning the 2nd time, but with another dub.what would my strategy be?

that’s how the day was spent.

under the radar

Thanks for that update, Terry. You did a great job of conveying the gist of the whole encounter. It felt like I was right there with you, and I appreciate your sharing all this with us.

Not to pile it on too thick, but my hat's off to you for being so quick on your feet and keeping the conversation going your way despite Brother Bill's best efforts to seize control. Just like your first visit with Cheerful Earl, you did a masterful job with this one, too.

And now for the bad news... I can practically guarantee that Earl will be instructed in no uncertain terms that he is NOT to visit you again. Brother Bill (who is almost certainly an elder, if not a circuit overseer or some other "heavy") obviously already suspects you are an apostate, a disfellowshipped person playing them for sport, or some other version of spiritual enemy with his own agenda. At the very least, he has decided you're only wasting their time, ulterior motives or not, and that you're clearly not a good prospect for a "Bible Study."

And if I may offer another prediction... if Brother Bill is sufficiently curious or suspicious, he will follow up on that friend you probably shouldn't have named. Under the 6 degrees of separation principle, everybody knows somebody who knows somebody, etc., etc. If he asks around enough, it is inevitable that someone will remember your friend, and that will lead to more questions (whatever happened to...), and eventually someone will put two and two together and you will be unmasked and cast as a "dangerous and angry apostate using clever words and smooth talk to entrap the unwary." Like I said before, it's entirely possible that your home will be listed as a Do Not Call. That would actually be a tribute to you, but it would also cut into your entertaining and educational verbal sparring opportunities. More's the pity...

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your visits with Cheerful Earl. You're a gifted storyteller, and I always want to read more.

31

The Dub At My Door (is back for Return Visit)

by TerryWalstrom in

the dub at my door ___________________i’d rather have a root canal than agree to a sit down with an active jehovah’s witness.i’m an ex-jw.

for good reason.

fool me once....i’m an activist and an author of a book or two exposing and vilifying the destructive jw cult organization.yet i agreed.

under the radar

Masterful job, Terry! You handled the entire situation just right. Hopefully, he will actually think about your conversation and draw his own conclusions without undue influence from others with their own agenda.

I suspect, though, that if he's been a JW very long, he will tell his friends and maybe even his elders about this most unusual RV. If it comes to light that you were ever a JW, he'll be warned away from "that dangerous apostate who uses clever words to undermine your faith." He'll be assured that the Devil is backing you and whispering in your ear what to say, the better to confuse and beguile the unwary.

If they don't yet suspect that you were once a JW, he might very well might come back with a more experienced "brother," maybe even the Circuit Overseer, who they imagine will be able to keep up with you and overcome your misguided reasoning. When that inevitably fails, I'd bet dollars to donuts he'll never come back again. Heck, your house may even be put on the Do Not Call list. Can't have smooth talking demons in disguise taking advantage of the flock, can we?

I truly hope you can liberate another poor soul from bondage to ~~ignorance and superstition~~ the Watchtower. Good luck, and please keep us posted.

20

Another Hollywood Memory

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

another hollywood memory____________________“thanks for the pink chablis, marta.

who’s that singing?

sounds familiar.”.

under the radar

Another great story, Terry! Thanks. I know some folks find it hard to believe that not EVERY fun and relaxed interaction between a man and a woman HAS to end up with mattress thrashing.

I really liked the song, too. It now proudly resides in my walking-at-the-mall playlist. Some kinds of (what passes for) jazz sound rather frantic to me and can be tiring to listen to, but this was just right. Thanks again.

12

Watchtower Coercion of Non-JWs

by Lee Elder in

it is widely known that the watchtower coerces compliance with its deadly blood dogma.

a less known fact is that this pressure is further extended to non-believing family members of jw's.

a new story at ajwrb recounts how jw elders nearly cost the life of one unbeliever when he fell gravely anemic.

under the radar

When my (at the time) father-in-law was in the hospital with his final illness, one of the reasons the doctors couldn't give him the surgery that might have extended his life was that he refused to accept the almost inevitably necessary blood transfusions it would entail.

Mind you, he was never a JW, not even particularly favorable toward their beliefs. I'd say it was more like he was tolerant out of an effort to maintain peace with his wife, who has a strong-willed if not domineering personality. Many in the family believed it was she that really "ran the show," and that he was pretty much under her thumb. Once in a while, he'd "get his back up" and stand up to her, but most of the time, he'd just give a resigned sigh and yield to her.

Anyway, I went to see him in the hospital and had a nice talk with him, mostly about non-controversial things like family and old times. I then told him what my dad, who had been a Congregation Servant since the 50's and an Elder since that arrangement came out in the 70's, told his own non-JW brother. He told his brother that he would think no less of him if he took blood, and that to refuse blood because of what someone else thought would be pointless. He stressed that he had never been baptized, never claimed to be a Witness, and therefore had no duty to take a position that he'd never accepted before and that he had serious reservations about anyway.

So I told "Grandpa" that he should only refuse blood if he himself believed it was wrong, and NOT because "Grandma" thought it was wrong, or what she might say to him if he did take it. I told him that refusing blood because he didn't want to disappoint some else by violating a belief THEY had but he didn't share was ridiculous. Then we moved on to other things and I left on very good terms with him.

"Grandma" sent word that I was not to visit "Grandpa" in the hospital anymore because I was "pressuring him to take a blood transfusion." I just replied that I didn't take my orders from "Grandma," and that I'd visit him whenever I could and say whatever I wanted. When I said that I'd only told him what my dad had told his own brother, I didn't hear any more about it.

It turned out that all this drama was a moot point. The doctors said it was an extremely risky and complicated procedure anyway, and he would not have been able to survive it at that point even if blood transfusions had been an option. He died a few days later.

"Grandma" insisted on a Witness funeral, and they played up how supportive he was even though he never got baptized and went to very few meetings. They completely omitted any reference to his other fine attributes and accomplishments, or even that he was a World War II GI in the Pacific. No mention whatsoever.

Did I mention that I HATE this blanking cult?

53

2017 Convention Recording: JWs Applaud 10yo Girl For Shunning Her Own Sister

by pale.emperor in

this poor girl was baptized at 9yo.

.

she isnt old enough to buy alcohol, to vote, to decide her own medical treatment, to buy a pet, to travel alone... yet she was deemed old enough to dedicate her life to a religion that will cut her off from her family if she ever leaves.. here she is applauded for shunning her own sister who tried to keep in contact with her after waking up.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yzgnfda8ki.

under the radar

That video is heartbreaking and disgusting at the same time!

I truly despise the organization that would ~~encourage~~ demand such an aberration of natural affection by a child. She is too young to fully understand what she's doing, and what they're doing to her. It's even worse that they subtly reinforce that manipulation with public praise. That will make it ever harder for her to reconsider the unloving and unreasonable position she's been brainwashed into taking, even once she sees behind the curtain.

That poor little girl! I feel so sorry for her. She has no idea what she's really in for down the road...

17

Chapter 19 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower Slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

chapter 19.

“look ma no hands”.

by the time the summer rolled around they decided to put me on the dryers.

under the radar

My parents and other family knew a Brother Kennedy from the Atlanta area. I vaguely remember an assembly public talk being filmed or broadcast back in the 60's. This Brother Kennedy had something to do with show business, and I clearly remember him pointing at various sections of the audience and circling his hands to encourage them to clap longer and louder. I guess he was trying to keep the sound balanced for the recording. I was a pre-teen or very young teen, so I don't remember many more details. I don't think I ever personally met him.

Years later, my dad told me that Brother Kennedy had been murdered while sitting in his car. Apparently, it was a robbery that went wrong. I don't know any other details, but I'm pretty sure it's the same guy.

Regardless, it's so sad when people die taking senseless chances or are killed while minding their own business, especially when they're young and had bright futures ahead of them.

It's also very sad that this mind-control cult thinks nothing of squashing any hint of individuality. It is led by hypocrites and traitors to everything they claim to believe.

23

Instructions to remove old WT information from kh libraries

by Half banana in

a pimo friend (physically in mentally out) has just informed me that the cult has decided that they want to suppress all old jw org information by removing bound volumes etc from kh libraries.. in reality, all through their history they have claimed divine "new light" as a means of changing uncomfortable doctrines.

this however would mean that new jws, or more likely these days young jws, will be prevented from seeing the old light which had been held up as divinely inspired truth in the past.. truth which would get you through big a and which if you didn't agree with would get you disfellowshipped.. anyone else heard of this?

what might be the reasons (if true) for removing the old wts?.

under the radar

In Watchtower-speak, "in the event the elders decide" has the same real meaning as the instruction that elders should "consider whether" excess congregation funds can be donated to the World Wide Work™.

It's more than a connotation. It's a de facto instruction, and true believers understand that compliance is mandatory, but it's phrased so as to give the Society plausible deniability. "We never said they had to do it! It's not our fault if some went beyond what was written."

This kind of crap is disingenuous at best. I think it's downright dishonest and deceptive, self-serving and hypocritical. They would love to get rid of all the old embarrassing literature. Even now, many JW's are convinced that anything off the internet, and really, anything not known to be an original Society publication or document, has probably been doctored by "apostates" to undermine their faith.

54

JW Kids Bullying My Daughter

by pale.emperor in

trying not to type swearwords as i write this so bare with me.. my little 3yo attends meetings with her jw mum (who doesn't believe watchtower anymore but is stuck in because she relies on her family for help).

my mum (the one who tells people im dead) had a party for her grandchildren.

that's my 4 nieces and 1 nephew aged from 3yo-11yo.

under the radar

It's too bad that your relatives want to be such anuses. And their children are having their natural decency stolen from them by their parents' slavish devotion to that blanking cult. I don't even know you, but I am so sad and angry that your precious daughter was treated in such an unloving and vindictive manner, and by her own relatives!

If there's any silver lining, it's that their robotic mindless shunning of an innocent child may have actually protected her in the long run. If they had welcomed her with open arms, she may have been fooled by the love bombing and might have wanted to spend more and more time around them. This would inevitably end with their attempting to brainwash her into becoming just like them. A young child has little defense against indoctrination by a determined cultist who poses as a loving grandmother, aunt, or other authority figure.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't allow them any unsupervised time around her. Who knows what they'd be poisoning her little mind with?

44

A WTF Moment While In the WTS

by Searching in

has anyone else had a moment, while still within the organization (and before learning ttatt) that caused them to stop and go, "this is kind of messed up.".

for instance, back i believe in the early 2000's, i was attending a dc with my family.

it was announced at the beginning of the convention that there was going to be a special announcement at the end, so for everyone to please try to remain until the very end of the meeting.

under the radar

smiddy, I had exactly the same WTF!!! moment you did! And like you, it was several more years before I completely and finally broke free, but that was the first real crack in the dam.

I never was all that gung-ho, but I did believe the Bible was God's Word and that the Society had the Truth™ (in most areas, anyway) well into adulthood. Then that patently ridiculous and self-serving bullcrap about early Bible Student conventions fulfilling certain Revelation prophecies woke me up. I started doing a little clandestine research on the nascent internet, and Voila!, my eyes were opened. The first site I found was Randall Watters' FreeMinds.org. I especially enjoyed his Net Soup. That eventually led me here (well, one of JWN's earlier iterations) and the rest is history.

I have never been DA or DF, though to be truthful, there would have been grounds if they had chosen to pursue it. The loophole in the latest Flocking the Sheep (double super-secret elder's manual) gave them an out. I now live far away, don't represent myself as a JW (oh, hell no!), and no one up here thinks of me as a JW. I'm sure the fact that I know where many "skeletons are buried" was not a factor in their decision to leave me alone. I know stuff that could peel the paint off the walls...

I am shunned by some relatives (to varying degrees), but by no means all. None of the active JWs will discuss the reasons I left or any other "spiritual" topic. They don't want to know what my issues are. I believe they're afraid they too will see behind the curtain and have their precious bubble popped. Any discussion with me might "undermine their faith." They know they simply cannot hold their own in the light of calm reasoning backed up by verifiable facts and unassailable logic. The only thing they have to fall back on is "Where else would you go?" or "Those were just mistakes by imperfect men" or "We've had family in the Truth™ for almost 100 years. How could all of them have been wrong?" None of which has the slightest bearing on whether the Society's teachings are true or not, or whether their practices show any indication of "divine guidance" or not.

It's amusing that they are so scandalized and appalled that, thanks to this site and a couple of others, I usually know about confidential stuff, even super special boys-only BOE letters, well before they do, sometimes even before my Elder relatives. That irks them no end. I have to admit I enjoy a certain satisfaction in their discomfort and resentment. Oh well, no one's perfect. I am a bad boy...

8

Junkyard Photo (Door)

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

i see where you were shooting and what did i tell you?

don't bother lying!".

the heavyset man could have been a bulldog or a gargoyle.

under the radar

Thanks for another moving story, Terry. You have a true talent for drawing your reader in.

Not to pick nits, but I believe the fumigant of choice was Xyklon B, originally developed as a commercial insecticide. It came in pellet form, shipped in air-tight cans. The SS soldier would go on top of the gas chamber, which was configured to make the victims think it was a community shower, take the cover off the shaft coming up from the chamber, and pour the pellets in. They would turn into poison gas almost immediately upon contact with the air. The soldier, of course, was careful to wear a gas mask when pouring in the pellets. Safety first, you know.